Joining me today is R Vivekanand, the Global Head of BFSI Products and Platform. Now congratulations on your new role. Vivek, you look thank you. You're looking very perturbed. So am I. This job is going to be a fun 30 minutes. Thank you. Thank you. TCS's presence in BFSI is very significant. Market share beat revenue. Give us a sense about in this new role as far as BFSI  is concerned, what is your plan? What is your outlook? Yeah, let me put it this way, right. BFSI is by far our largest, this right. What we can do and what we have the potential to do is to provide a complete end to end service in a model in which we are paid by subscription. We are paid annually, right. So it is, it is not, It's a very different paradigm and in some ways you could say that it is the pinnacle of what you can accomplish as an end to end service provider, right. That is how I would like to say that would be the ultimate end to end service that you can provide and where better to do that than BFSI? And that is the future that one would want to reach out to a specs. So if you want to look at all the flagship products we have across P&D for that matter, what stands out, which are the ones that are the heroes and which are the ones that are to be the future heroes. If you were to say, yeah, now you're putting me on the spot because the team would be looking at this, right? See, we are starting with we have a very strong play in insurance, right. So naturally that's the backbone on which we are building this whole business. So we will expand first within insurance, we need to expand to multiple segments of insurance. Today we are in life and pension, but we need to expand it to other parts of insurance, property, casualty, health. Then we need to expand globally in that space. Today we are predominantly in UK and to a lesser extent in the US. So we need to have a platform play that is more global in nature. So are these are immediate goals to start on this journey of becoming more global and to have more of our insurance product line in a platform mode. Then of course we would want to do much more on BFSI itself than to services, capital markets, asset servicing, banking. I mean the range of what we can do in BFSI is so much, but the starting point would be to expand on our insurance. And B, become much more global than what we are right now. What are the broad targets for you in this new role? What are your say, KPIs that you're going to look at? The first one is to go global, right, I think to be a little bit more, a lot more global than we are right now and that naturally will create high growth. Definitely we would want to grow higher than company average, if I can put it that way, right. I think that would be a minimum expectation. So that itself is the number that you can look at. We need to grow with high margins. That is an imperative. This is a business in which we can get good top line. The challenge is to get good top line with very good margins. So if we can grow above company average and have very good margins, that would be our initial goal for the next couple of years. Let's look at the global landscape, Where do we stand in the pecking order? Without giving names, of course, I think we are right up there. You could say we are one of the leaders, but then it's a question of how there is no apple to apple comparison in this, right. We are competing in different segments with different people on the product. We don't have one single competitor. Our competitors vary completely between banking and capital markets and just within capital markets it varies. Then in insurance, then as a platform provider it varies. So we compete with 15 to 20 different companies if I may. So that makes the comparison really difficult. But when you look at the breadth of what we do, then I would say we are right up there. What we need to work on is the scale given the kind of capabilities that we have, the products that we have and the breadth of the offering, the scale to which we can go should be a lot more than what we are today and that is what I think would be my main goal. Our management talks a lot about end to end play right, where does PNP fit in when you are going to a customer to create that end to end play where we are G&T partner, how does products and platforms fit in and in this landscape that BFSI. Is interestingly in right now. If you look at the macro environment, how does that stand? It's 100% right because it is a complete end to end play. We are accountable for the final outcome. We are not accountable for delivering a product. We are not accountable for part of it. We are not accountable for going live. We are accountable for the results after going live and that is what we are measured by. We are accountable for service. Levels to the end customer. So it's like every single program is a transformation program, if I can, right? I'm not at all exaggerating when I say that. So it's not like what is the percentage of the business that is growth and translate every single thing. But our customers also expect cost optimization. Right. So they expect that as they grow, the cost per transaction price per policy is falling, OK. So in a sense they expect optimization. I would not call it conventional cost optimization, but it is there. When Rajesh talks about two engines, I sometimes feel like we are a plane with two engines. We just need to, you know, take off more often and land more safely. What are clients saying? Well, especially when it comes to investing into critical projects, into P&P kind of deals. I wouldn't say we are sensing A pullback at this point of time, right? There is naturally conversation in every meeting about the uncertainty in the overall environment. It is more the uncertainty and that drives a lot of parameters. And financial services is in the middle of every industry, right. Everybody needs funding. So there is a certain amount of overhang that is there. That means that I think customers will put more pressure on us rather than to say that you know the deals will go off the table. I think we will be under greater pressure than two years back. That's how I would put it. I think it's like you know one follows the other. But the business paradigm in which we are seeing a big shift is on the move to cloud and SAS, specifically SAS. So what that means is that we will, we are expected to drive down the annual costs on SAS. There will be less money that they will put on the table up front. This is what I feel will become more accentuated because of the larger macroeconomic situation. So they would want, they wouldn't mind paying us more two years down the road. What they would say, you don't give me big upfront costs, OK. So that is the challenge that we need to manage with our customers because they would want to keep their money with them. Now the programs that we do are not necessarily discretionary. Yeah, they're not discretionary. They are not nice to have programs. They are fundamental to the growth and I may say fundamental to even the survival of some of our customers. So they cannot make it discretionary, but they will want more innovative financial modeling, which will probably. Right. Got it. OK. So let's talk a little bit about the trends that you're seeing. So if you were to look at or just isolate blockchain as a market or if you were to look at the entire gamut of products and platform that we have, what are the top trends that you're going to watch for in 2022/23? Let's talk blockchain cost, right? So top trends in blockchain one will be CDC. Most countries are, in my view, going to issue some form of centralized digital currency. I think it will happen. The world is moving in that direction. Maybe in five years all of us will have. Centralized digital currencies in our wallets and have less cash of more of that, but that's one big trend. #2 is NFTS, but in a much more digital and meaningful form, right Digital art, Music which are 100% digital, which already used today and which you have a certain kind of write over and that will become NFTS. Blockchain is the best way to store and distribute it the most authentic way. It's better for the artist. So I think that will happen. Two very diverse, diverse industries. A little bit more of a technology trend would be coexistence. What that means is that blockchain will blockchain based or distributed systems will coexist with. Current systems, database driven systems, you cannot create these blockchain based islands. And the systems are to work together, they will coexist. There will be today's core systems, there will be some surrounding solutions that are provided on blockchain. And that's a big thing that we are doing on Quartz. Coexistence is at the core of what we do. So you will have a combination of on chain and off chain. And I think that's the only way in which you can increase adoption and that's what I think will be a very strong part of the architecture of the future. In terms of what all of us would experience as people, I think it would be CDC. Digital currencies and then update and how early would that be, You think that we're ready, the market is kind of ready for it and that could come in by 2023/24 kind, yes, two to three years. Is regulation broadly needed for crypto, if not now eventually? Yes, regulation is needed in my view, in two different ways. One is there has to be enabling regulation. Enabling regulation creates the railroad, on top of which you can run the trains, right? So you need that enabling regulation. For technology, including blockchain, just like you need enabling regulation for 5G, yeah, you need enabling regulation for the Internet. Similar to that, you need enabling regulation for distributed Ledger technology. So that's one aspect, that's technology regulation. Then comes the financial regulation. How do you regulate something where there is huge volatility? What does it do to your society? What does it do to your countries? Macro stability. Those are decisions that each central bank has to take for their juro section And that's a financial regulation aspect. So I think both of these need to need to go together. I think the world will always be a regulated place. So I think we should all work within that. Yeah. Innovation will stretch the boundary of regulation and regulation has to pull it back. SGX is game changing. It's something that game changing for the nation is very close to the Prime minister's. The PML part. There's a lot of parties involved in the execution of it. Lot of pressure, lot of pressure. There's obviously we got OK, so from an age perspective give us a sense of. How important the Gift City project is and tell us a little bit about the work that TCS has done. Ours is the main system for. Bridging this right, I am using the word bridge very carefully, right? Thus, the participants in the Singapore Exchange or the market participants of SGX. Their trades are going to move to the GIFT city and that order management bridge is based on ECL banks. It's based on our solution. So it's the connecting bridge between these two exchanges. Then as a project, it is a landmark project when you have two such large exchanges, 2 of the largest in the region in the eastern part of the world coming together to create an initiative on a highly popular product. Then it is, it's a big, big national initiative, right. The Nifty future is getting traded in India is of course very important for India. And the fact that we are able to create a win, win model is something that I think at a national level, both these organizations have done a phenomenal job for us. It's a great initiative to be part of it on both sides, both from the SGX Singapore perspective. And from. From a national perspective, so. When you, it's good to take that kind of pressure, right. It's good to take pressure on a project like this, which is of importance. Yeah. And which also brings out the best of what TCS can do, Yeah. But not everybody can take this kind of pressure and deliver on time. So we are prepared for high volumes, let me put it that way. We can handle the capacity. In the Stock Exchange business, it's a combination of volumes, low latency and you have to provide a different kind of performance characteristic for algorithmic trading. So it's a combination of many things that define high performance and that has to come with pretty much 100% availability, right? You cannot go down, right. So it's very. It's a very sophisticated balance that you need to reach and I think that's the balance that you need to strike. It's like. It's a little bit like a Formula One car, right? You have to drive at that speed, but you cannot crush it. And you still drive safely, but you can't drive slow. So it's like that. So you have to be 100% availability, you have to have. High performance and low latency. So that's the combination of things that we are cooking up together. So it's sort of like the perfect balance you need to get. OK. So this is something that's very close to your heart. I remember talking a few months ago and I was surprised when you told me that we are actually one of the leaders when it comes to market exchanges globally, not just in India. Tell me how, you know, give me a sense of the kind of work that TCS has done and if you look at the overall global packing orders. As independent players, we are actually the largest. Give me color on that. We are the largest independent player. We compete with stock exchanges. We don't compete with IT companies, which is very, very different. That means you are competing with the industry. So in a sense that also means that in a small way you have to get plugged into the industry itself, otherwise you cannot comply. You cannot be a software provider alone and compete when you are a competitor. Is actually a Stock Exchange. So that's the nature of what we do. But I think it's a space in which we have made a huge global impact in my view. I would say that in all humility, I would still say that, right, because we are in more than 30 countries. No one can buy or sell a single share in those countries without TCS software. How powerful is that? We are in the three largest markets in Africa. Those three markets combined are more than 99.5% of Africa's trading volume. So that's what that's all of Africa, pretty much. Right. So we are in so many large mission critical organizations there in Europe, clear, we are LCS. So we are in the biggest markets of the world and we are at the center of their capital market. Where do you think we have played a critical role in this Digital India campaign? See over the last 25 years, if you would ask, right? I think these years have played the role of a catalyst. It's we are not the bank, we are not the Stock Exchange, we are not the clearing company. We are the one thing that has been common to most of these places. So we have been the catalyst, our solutions have been the catalyst, our ability to deliver these projects, our ability to put our hand up for these projects. That has been the catalyst. So I think we have played a catalytically role in the transformation of India's markets itself, the financial industry and I think. I think we should be more recognized for that, Yeah. What is next in the country? UPI type of innovation and many other financial products. OK, that's definitely next, right? See, we are a hugely innovative nation. We tend to. We tend to undermine that in the name of regard. Actually, it we are hugely innovative. All kinds of people embrace technology and innovation in our country without even thinking about it, without making a big deal out of it. That is why UPI is a success. It's because of the how Indians embraced technology. Otherwise they would still be using cash, correct? Now, I would think that people would buy insurance the same way people are already buying stocks on the fly, right? People would buy insurance on the fly. You would buy insurance when you are in the airport. You would buy insurance when you are embarking on your journey. You probably we will buy insurance based on how much we drive our cars. So I think it will have that kind of an instant by capability which we all will need. We already need that. We don't have that today. So I think it will become as easy to buy insurance that's what it is to make a payment today. I think that is one single element which we will all see in the future. So you know the rules you I'll ask you a question you say the first thing that comes to your mind and it has to be as the word says rapid. My first question, your first your very first TCS memory. My very first TCs memory is walking into TCS white shirt and denim. With sneakers and pretty much getting my job the same day. Really. That's my memory of this. Yes, I walked in. I didn't realize I would get interviewed that day and will be told that I will get a job offer that day. In fact, that's why I joined you, OK? The fact that they were willing to interview me in jeans and fill in the blank when you are not working, you are sleeping, that was just a bad answer. That means I don't do anything. That's the correct answer. So I am watching sports or sleeping, reading, sleeping or sports or working. That's good enough in an alternate universe. So in an alternate dimension you about the multiverses and all of that, right? So in an alternate universe you would be myself, but I would bat like Tendulkar. But I would be myself, if not in tech, What career would you have chosen? Or if not in TCS? Cricket, cricket, cricket. All the time I would have wanted to play cricket. Do you still play cricket? I'm not anymore. I think I've passed that. No, I play a little bit on the street. I go and talk to kids who play cricket. I talk to their mothers to ask them to play cricket. I do that. I go to my former club and they ask me once in a while to come and meet mothers so that mothers don't pull their sons out of the game. And I tell them don't pull them out of the game. Playing cricket it doesn't mean you don't make it. Our favorite food. Italian favorite male actor Amitabh Bachchan's favorite female you. But it doesn't stop there. Kamal Hassan. I have to add to it. And Al Pacino. And Al Pacino. Yes. OK, Because I've watched every single Kamal Hassan movie. why i shouldnot  put him up there. But Al Pacino. Yes. What style. How can you not? Favorite actor? Favorite actress Aishwarya Rai ,Madhuri Dixit  OK, Audrey Hepburn. Audrey Hepburn ,Who is the most interesting person you've ever met? This one is this one. You're putting me on a spot. I'm not going to give anybody I know, right? I'm not going to give most interesting person I have met. Vivian Richards .You met him? Yes. Wow. And I shocked him by how much? I adored him and I just explored him. I think he was surprised I met him a few years back. In his prime,I wouldn't have been able to meet him, but I had met him in a chennai  as much then also. OK, but. The most interesting person? Yes. What would be harder for you to give up Tea, coffee, or alcohol? Coffee, coffee, Coffee. Yeah, because I started drinking it before I started drinking alcohol. It's not even my grandmother made me drink So coffee. I can't give up. OK, yeah. What is a futuristic tech that might never exist, but you really want to see it? There are a lot of things I wish we would have technology in which we travel fast. Yeah, I don't like to spend time when planes. Maybe we should go to space and descend where we need to go. Don't waste time going horizontal. OK. So on that futuristic note, thank you so much. Thank you for excellent conversation. I think one of the best interviews that I have seen, you have and I have had in my career. Thank you so much for talking to us. So that was a very fun candid conversation with our Vivekananda in his candid best possibly. Thank you so much for watching this episode of TCS conversation.