Hello and welcome to a special episode of TCS Conversation. October 10th is globally observed as a mental health awareness day. We caught up with a very special guest. She wears many hats. She is the head of Wellness and safety at TCS. And more importantly, she is the global head of TCS Cares, which is our mental health initiative. Welcome to the show, Sangeeta. Thank you so much, Priyanka. It's my pleasure to be here. So straight off the bat, I want to understand what is the importance of organizations to talk about well-being. You know organizations. What are organizations? Organizations are people, right? And people come with everything. People come with their lives, their homes, their work and everything together, their whole package. And when you think about a whole package, it is really important to consider everything that goes on with them. Till quite recently we did take care of various things like their physical fitness, which took care of their comfort at work and things like that. But I'm really glad that the world has evolved and we've begun to understand. And consider that what they bring most importantly to work with to their minds and their heart and their souls is something that we need to take care of as well, which is why taking care of that is really important. The other very bra stack sort of reason for that is that, you know, mental health and well-being is very clearly linked to productivity and organizations which take care of their people. People who are, well people who bring their whole selves are able to contribute fully to the organization. Otherwise, you know you have absentism but you also have something called as presentism, which means that you come to work but you're not fully there. So what's the use? So which is why well-being is really important to take care of. So I would say in a nutshell, well-being is every aspect of your life and if that functions well, you're well. So that's a very holistic understanding of well-being. But I want to take a step back and understand what is mental well-being. So when we say mental well-being, what does it constitute? So you Know it's very easy to answer this because WHO is actually defined this very clearly. And WHO says that mental well-being is a state of being where a person can bring themselves to work, where they feel cold, where they can contribute to the rest of the world and they can be functional fully when they are going through difficult times, small or big. Now when it is very big, of course you understand that you are not very well, but if in small things that you're not feeling too well. Then you're fine. Your mental well-being is fine. So Sangeeta you bring up the pandemic, right? So in many ways the pandemic was a tipping point for everyone. We were cooped up in our homes and Mental health took a new meaning then. So what was your experience and how did TCS care sort of bring in some relief for our associates? So one thing is know, Priyanka, I think the fact that we at TCS understood that mental health is something that we need to support more fully is something we came to a realization of few years ago when we set up that's  before the pandemic, much before the pandemic. And you know as an organization they've always been ahead of the time. So we always had a EAP service for many, many years, but you know about when you say EAP service, so EAP. This is employee assistance program, which is our counseling services, which are usually external people who provide these services. Because it's really important to put arms length between providing this service so that people know and feel safe that there's confidentiality that the person who is supporting them has no organizational, you know, reasons to support other than just supporting you as a person. So that's an EAP service. It's provided, of course free of cost and it's confidential. TCS does not get any report of any person and what they're talking about with the council at all. It's really important to know that and understand that. I think it's also important to feel safe too. Yeah, come out and talk about it solutely. Absolutely. So EAP services available, but having an EAP service was probably not enough. And we needed to make sure that we begin to develop a culture where people can feel safe talking about their mental health. We needed to find spots where stigma is something that we begin to take care of. We need to take care of things like fear, about what happens when you know, if somebody reveals that they have an emotional health problem and how did they get perceived? By their fears, by their managers, by the organization. So these are some of the things which needed to be taken care of. And so therefore when we set up, we set it up with the intent of creating awareness and understanding about mental health. We decided that we needed to create also. Acceptance through, you know conversations and different things and then of course provide support and support will not just through the EAP service but also through self help resources which would help people to begin to take charge of their mental health well before they reached a crisis point where they needed to go to, you know a counselor who you know really help and support them, right. And of course create community where we can have conversations like this one or many others where we can do that. So we had TCS Cares, but I have. To say that the pandemic was a disruptor in so many different ways, including mental health. I think mental health really found a peak at the top table because of the pandemic and the realization that people and organizations got that this is really, really important. So it really made a huge difference and the kind of it was also important to review what was happening during the pandemic which was changing. Literally on a weekly and a monthly basis and to respond with the kind of support systems that people needed. I think the pandemic really helped us to grow this. Area of supporting mental health and being in a way which probably would have taken us another ten years in the world to do. So Sangeeta you did mention stigma, right? And the pandemic did bring in mental health at the top of the table and everybody's talking about it. And yet there are some barriers when it comes to talking about mental health. What are those barriers? So while we've made some strides, I think we have a long way to go and I would say that long ways, not just here in our country, in India, but it is across the world. So different cultures look at mental health and the way we speak about it in different ways, right. In some cultures, on a personal level, it might be OK to talk about mental health. It is quite acceptable that people talk about going to their therapist and having sessions. And in some cultures it is very clear that people believe that, you know, mental health is not something that our families go through or yeh hamare yahan nahi hota hai, you know, so things like that, right? So it could be different things which drive the ability of people to be able to speak about these. The other thing is about the workplace. So how do we create an environment where people begin to feel safe to talk about it at the workplace? Because quite naturally people begin, People feel that. If I was to talk about the fact that I have mental health issues, how would I be perceived? Would I get right opportunities? Would people think I'm strong enough to be able to handle stress and pressure? I have the ability to do. Absolutely, so you know, so those are some of the barriers and the stigma which which. Immediately to the port. And that is something that we will have to work continuously on to ensure that we find ways to slowly and steadily chip away at this. And you know, to reach a time and space where we can, we can have these conversations openly. I think we've come a long way. You know, I love this example where you know the while we had counselors at work, but most people are happier to use, you know, the telephonic mode or the chat mode or e-mail. Or with the counselor in the privacy of their own spaces. But we do have councillors at the workplace, right? We have our councillors who come into our offices and they are available. And in our OHC centers, in our occupational health centers where we have our doctors come in, we also have the counselors come in. And now where you can see people coming and waiting for the doctor to meet the doctor, you can also see people waiting to see the counselor, which is wonderful, I think, you know, because you know, quite an achievement. Just that they they're not worried about the fact that somebody in the organization is actually seeing them. Sitting outside a councillor is acceptable. It's fine. I have to tell you the most heartening thing that I have seen. What was the starting point of TCS Cares? So now as I said you I so I worked the organization gave me a chance to work in the area of safety. We set up safety first a few years ago and the reasons for doing that was because our leadership realized that it was very important that people understand what personal safety is. And through that journey we began to have conversation on various areas of safety and we realized that emotional safety was a huge area that people were when these go and do sessions. On the floor and things like that, people would come quietly to the side and talk about things which are not related to safety from crime or physical safety or Road safety. They would talk about their emotions. And that is how we realized that the organization is ready, It is right, the time is right. And during that time I, my interest in this area grew and I decided to train to become a counselor. So I'm an integrated counseling therapist and when I did that. It give me the ability to have the confidence to go up to the organization and talk to Ritu and Ritu Anand and say that, you know, we need to do this, we need to bolster this, we need to strengthen this area. And you know, the organization gave me the chance to actually set this up. So this was when? This was in 2018 and we set this up in 2008. That's much, much before the  pandemic. Yes, absolutely So. And now taking the learnings of the pandemic ahead and I'm a person who's beneficiary of TCS cares, so I would really like to understand what are the offerings under the TCS Cares that you know our associate can sort of get help. So as I said you of course we have our EAP service, we have our counseling services which are available to our people completely free, completely confidential. It is also available to families after the pandemic. You know we realize that it is important that we make these services available to the families of our people as well. So it's available to families as well. Then we have a multitude of self help resources, whether it is training sessions, whether it is a webinars. Around various subjects, subjects could be as varied as how do I cope with confidence issues, to parenting some webinars, to how to deal with anxiety, to how to deal with anger. Then we have support for our managers to show our managers how they can manage the teams with empathy, with care. So you know those managers and stylization sessions. Same thing for HR as well. A big result of these sessions is that we have something called as manager or HR reference where managers or HR can actually see that something is going on with somebody and refer them TCS Cares  so that we can offer them the help that they need. These referrals have grown from the time of inception and continue to grow, which is incredible. Shows where the organization is right. So shows us that and we have something called as our peer support function where we train people internally to become emotional or mental health persuaders and all these things, Priyanka, I am very proud to say, result in something that we measure as a number called life saved. And you know, the fact that all this support, all this awareness, leads to people themselves becoming aware that they should seek out help before it is too late or other people being able to see that they need help in supporting that leads to people being, you know, especially people who are in severe need of help being brought back from the brink of something that they could have done. And that I think is the number that I'm the proudest, proudest. Recently there was this young man who called and he said he didn't know who I was first and he said, you know, I just saw this TCS Cares number and Ultimatix and I thought I would call and I said yes, tell me how I can help you. And he started to talk and we spoke for almost an hour. And through that conversation, by the end of the conversation, he said Know thank you so very much because. But you don't know it. But you actually helped me make a decision which has changed the decision that I had already made about my life. And I've changed that. And you help save my life. That's such a powerful experience. You know, even now it gives me goosebumps. And every time you do that, it humbles you. And it also makes you believe that everything that you do is so worth it. Sangeetha, just a little bit going into resilience. And adaptability, We're coming out of the pandemic and things are changing very fast. And we things are changing really fast during the pandemic, but now it's faster. So how does 1 adapt to the situation? So as I said earlier, at different times of how the world is changing, we need different attributes, different skills that are needed to deal with what's going on with us. And during the pandemic, the most important thing. Was take care of the immediate sense of safety and security of our people to handle their anxiety, their stress, right? And after that, now that you're coming back to supposedly the normal world. It is important to be able to deal with that as well. So definitely we spent two years in going back into our home. We had many different lessons and realizations. Now that you have to come back to the real world, we need to adapt to that as well, right? I know how many people, you know, who speak about when they first stepped out of their homes after the pandemic were literally scared because, you know, they felt threatened by just being out on the streets out. And there was a lot of anxiety, anxiety around that right? People looked at each other like, you're going to definitely give me COVID now, So that sense was also obviously there, but. I think at some level there is this whole aspect of resilience which is really important for all of us as human beings because that is the one which is actually going to see us through this crazy mad world that we are all living in now, right? Every day there is some crisis or the other. Every day there's some challenge that we have to face and you know, sort of deal with. Every day is a change which we believe we never thought would ever have to be dealt with. Right, and the only way to do that is to develop resilience. And so therefore, I really believe that the next paradigm for mental health really is about helping people build  resilience. So then what is resilience? How does 1 build that resilience muscle that you talk about? So know, just like Priyanka, you go to the gym to build your various muscles, right? And it takes time, right? And we subject ourselves to weight training or to pulling something or. I'm not a gym person, but you know, those are all the things that we do,Neither am I, right? Yeah. And then we have these 6 packs, So we have. Different kinds of muscles that we have, and it takes time to do that in the same way, just like you're saying, it's a resilient muscle, it takes time, takes stretching, it takes a little bit of tension on that, on what is happening with you to be able to deal with it and slowly develop that muscle. It is also important to face the challenge and learn from it. So there's a beautiful saying by now, you know somebody who works in this field called Doctor Swan Hansen, who says that you need to not just bounce back, but you need to bounce forward, right? You know, And that I think is really important because what's the point of facing challenges, having things happen to you and then going right back to who you were, every little thing that happens, you. Changes you with your ,you know changes you had the most organic level and shouldn't that change you for the better? How do you grow? Yes. How do you learning. So that is really important and we need to learn that we need to build that muscle within our people who the various experiences doesn't necessarily mean that we need to subject them to adversity because we have enough adversity around us. So to be able to consciously show people that if this was the adversity how did we cope to learn from each other. To listen to other people's stories and be inspired and actually pick that up and apply that to your own life. Just one last question for people watching, there might be people who are going through a difficult time, or there might be people who don't even know that you know they're going through a difficult time. What is your message to them?  I think the message is that. Become really conscious about who you are. Watch out for the various things that are happening with you. So sometimes you will spiral down, sometimes you will fly high, right? And when you're beginning to spiral, catch yourself at that time. Seek help and the help necessarily, not always only a counselor. Seek help from friends , family know that seeking help is a sign of strength and it is not a weakness. So do that from the people around you. And if you can't find that, seek help from a counselor as well. And sometimes talking to a counselor does not mean that you need to be at the brink of something. You can even talk to a counselor just to clarify your thoughts. So do that. So that is something which is really important. I'm too everybody to say that, you know, all of us go through difficult times because emotional health is a spectrum, just like physical health. One day you may have a fever and one day somebody might be having a heart attack. Same way one day you may be, you know, stressed, the next day you may have anxiety. On another day you might have something very serious going on with you. So understand that emotional health is not something which is, you know, different. From any other part of your health, treated as such for yourself and for others, and help yourself and help others. And the take away for me from this conversation is seeking help is a strength. It's not a sign of weakness. And on that note, Sangeeta, I would like to thank you for talking to us today, taking time out and, you know, touching upon such really important issues. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure having you. Thank you so much, Priyanka. It was wonderful talking to you and also wonderful to be sitting here in this lovely open environment for lovely green nature. Thank God it didn't rain. Wonderful. Wonderful conversation. Thank you, Priyanka. Thank you.